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Post by rinkrat on Feb 24, 2011 23:37:28 GMT
Having seen yet another double figure scored against us tonight brought up the question in my mind as to whether we are in the wrong league! I think it was the great Scotty Bowman that said if a team scores double figures past you then either they are in the wrong league or you are! Clearly Swindon & Peterborough are not in the wrong league so I think that maybe we were a bit optimistic this season thinking that we could compete in the EPL given the team & the budgets we have.
What do other fans think ?
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Post by tom on Feb 25, 2011 2:00:26 GMT
My opinion on this is that we need to have a serious look at the budget for next season as a trust and make a collective decision based on that. Given the choice between being humped week in week out in the EPL and being semi-competitive in the ENL I'd pick the latter.
I know a few Tigers fans disagree with me, but at the end of the day Telford only have a hardcore fan base of about 100 and that's not enough to run EPL-level hockey at. We need to be competitive to bring in fairweather fans, newbies and sponsors to supplement the support/income the club gets from its die-hards.
None of this takes anything away from the squad we have this season. The Brits are putting in a great effort to make up for our lack of depth import-wise. Granted, we've taken a few beatings recently but as long as the team give 100% on every shift I don't care. I say it all the time, but I really believe that with 2 additional mediocre imports to add to the Brits we've got (and Andrejs and Tomas) we'd be in the hunt for a playoff spot.
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Post by theangrybudgie on Feb 25, 2011 8:40:11 GMT
After watching the Tigers play the Phoenix on four occasions so far this season, hand on heart, no the Tigers belong in the EPL!
However things have obviously not been easy, a small budget and playing the majority of the season with less than the full compliment of imports does not help. I honestly believe you have some of the best Brit's in the league, and should the Tigers mvoe to the ENL most would get contracts elsewhere in the EPL.
It is difficult, as I know the club is run by the fans, but I also believe it will do the club well to get through the season and ice next season too. You never know some fans/sponsors may have held back to see if the club can make it through a season. You never know come this summer a few new sponsors could come on board. An idea for next season, is there anyway you can work with all 9 teams in the league to spread the Tiger Tracks ownership idea? I really became a member by reading up on the website, maybe there is a way to spread the word via the other teams?
I remember, since Neil Morris took over the Phoenix we have faced two occasions over the future of the club. The first came after his first season in charge at the MEN arena, he said, play one more season in the arena and im gone and hockey will probably go in Manchester too. Or we mothball the team and build a rink. So the club went into hiatus for two years. Then two seasons ago, he said we cannot afford to continue in the EIHL, play another season and we'll go bust, or move to the EPL where things would be more sustainable.
So the summer will be tough, but I hope Tigers hockey will continue. I honestly 100% believe EPL hockey is viable in Telford. Everytime I have been to Telford the atmosphere has been great!
Sorry for the rambling post there peeps!
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Post by topbeats on Feb 25, 2011 11:25:09 GMT
Short and tall Tom is if we move to ENL then wave bye-bye to pretty much our entire squad and many sponsors, and we will then have to join the league at ENL 2.
As one of the people who spoke with sponsors when Dave & Rach stepped down, I asked whether they'd be interested in transferring their support to the ENL side - the overwhelming message I got back was a no, they wanted to see the Tigers in the EPL playing a full schedule rather than be involved with the 3rd / 4th tier of the sport in the UK and a team playing half a schedule with weeks between some home games.
The budget the trust can make available to the coach is in the hands of the fans, trust members and wider business community - I can't make it any simpler than that. I have read posts on the scoreboard about fans choosing to stay away due to losses and performance, which is fine and its their choice, but in doing so they must realise that they reduce an already impossible budget even further making the task harder still.
Bums on seats are the weekly lifeline of the club, if they reduce then so does the budget.
All season the trust have been asking for fans to speak to employers and any businesses they use to see if there is any prospect of an involvement with us - so far only 1 person has come back to us with a potential contact.
Many of the sponsors brought on board this season have come from doing the above, businesses that either I the board members use or are employed by.
If their are people out there that have a little marketing or business to business experience, have a passion and knowledge for the sport and can spare an afternoon a couple of times a week (shift patterns, part time work etc...) then shout up as their are over 3,000 companies based in Telford and the more people we have contacting them the greater the likelihood is we'll get a hit.
I would also remind that the successes of this season aren't just measured on the ice. Tiger Tracks and the Telford Tigers have reformed numerous relationships with the juniors, the rink and the council not to mention rolling out a schools programme that has seen Tom and some of the players out every week.
Community wise we have assisted with many events throughout the entire season, spreading our message and helping to increase our profile.
This and following years always has been and is about putting in place the building blocks for the future, renewing relationships, reforming partnerships, increasing the profile of both the team and the trust, increasing marketing and commercial activity with the ultimate nett goal of making available a better budget for a team we all deserve.
Whilst we'd all like to see some huge investment in the team we have to be realistic. We're just coming off the back of a hard and deep recession, the government is hitting every aspect of life straight in the pocket and people are careful with their cash. That said if we all continue to work hard together and in one cohesive direction there is no reason why we can't grow the organisation moderately and sustainably year on year and enjoy many celebrations in the future.
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Post by tigershots on Feb 25, 2011 13:34:03 GMT
TopBeats - totally Agree. And for everyones anger/anguish/dissapointment - one thing is very clear - we as fans are still passionate about Ice hockey in Telford, and long may it continue.
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Post by tom on Feb 25, 2011 17:41:59 GMT
Short and tall Tom is if we move to ENL then wave bye-bye to pretty much our entire squad and many sponsors, and we will then have to join the league at ENL 2. As one of the people who spoke with sponsors when Dave & Rach stepped down, I asked whether they'd be interested in transferring their support to the ENL side - the overwhelming message I got back was a no, they wanted to see the Tigers in the EPL playing a full schedule rather than be involved with the 3rd / 4th tier of the sport in the UK and a team playing half a schedule with weeks between some home games. We wouldn't have to join at ENL2, we could enter negotiations with the Titans about a more formal link-up, where they go into ENL2 and Tigers take their place in ENL1 as Wightlink and Vectis Tigers did. Were the sponsors only shunning Titans because they weren't the Tigers, like I'm told they used to with the Wild Foxes? You could play a full schedule in ENL...Division One North as it is would give us 28 games, then we could join the Northern League with two home and away games against Fife, Solway and Flintshire which takes it up to 34. So that's 17 home games...only 10 less than we currently have in the EPL. You could fill those missing home dates with challenge games/a cup against the likes of Chelmsford, Invicta, Romford and Wightlink in the Southern Conference. Or hows about a Midland Cup with Telford, Solihull and Coventry? Obviously I'd rather stay in the EPL to dropping down and I think we will be back next season, but dropping down is an option and isn't all that bad. |
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Post by brav607 on Feb 25, 2011 21:08:16 GMT
What is quite clear this season and something that no one else has touched on are the other teams in our league. Many other teams are loosing money hand over foot and I firmly believe that our business model will be taken on by some of them next season. Other owners are always asking how we manage .. and the simple answer is the fans. Our cloth is cut according to our means ... other teams must follow this example if the whole structure of the league is to survive at all.
This season and next and the season after that are viewed as development. Poor results are not acceptable but these will happen ... to any team. The impact of a run of poor perfomance affects the bigger clubs a lot more than it does ours as of course, their expectations are higher than ours.
Personally I believe that the only league for the Tigers is EPL. I'd rather compete at this level than win week in week out at a lower level. Granted, sometimes it looks like we don't compete and this is unacceptable as everyone at the club is aware. Tom has a monsterous job on his hands in keeping the guys spirits up when a bad run of results happens, the board do all they can to support him. Spirits will remain high with experience. Experience is being gained this year.
An aside from this ... I wonder if all the teams in our league had our budget.... how do you think the league positions would stand? ? ? Food for thought .... I think so .....
ENL .. I dont think so ....
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Post by tallpaul on Feb 25, 2011 23:26:38 GMT
[quote author=tom board=general thread=217 post=2375 time=1298655719
We wouldn't have to join at ENL2, we could enter negotiations with the Titans about a more formal link-up, where they go into ENL2 and Tigers take their place in ENL1 as Wightlink and Vectis Tigers did.[/quote]
Don't take this the wrong way Tom, but why would the Titans want to do that? They are established in ENL1 and have already seen the Tigers hit their support this season - so they certainly don't owe us anything. I would definitely favour stronger links with the Titans but that should be mutually beneficial. We shouldn't just assume that the Titans will be happy to drop down a division just because Tigers decide they can't compete in the EPL.
I don't like being the whipping boys but, by your own admission, we're just a couple of average imports away from being competitive in the EPL so we're not a complete basket case just yet.
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Post by telfordtornadoes on Feb 26, 2011 0:51:56 GMT
From Small Acorns...............
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Post by tom on Feb 26, 2011 3:11:36 GMT
Don't take this the wrong way Tom, but why would the Titans want to do that? They are established in ENL1 and have already seen the Tigers hit their support this season - so they certainly don't owe us anything. I would definitely favour stronger links with the Titans but that should be mutually beneficial. We shouldn't just assume that the Titans will be happy to drop down a division just because Tigers decide they can't compete in the EPL. I don't like being the whipping boys but, by your own admission, we're just a couple of average imports away from being competitive in the EPL so we're not a complete basket case just yet. Your second paragraph is the essence of my argument which, when this was posted on The Hockey Forum, I think many missed. If we can build on this squad next season with even one more import then I think we should stay EPL, no question. However, if the budget will only support two import hockey then why not play in a two import league? To answer you first point, I don't want to come across as arrogant but while Tigers are here Titans will always be the second team. If we stay in EPL and they stay in ENL1 they'll still lose their best young players to us eventually, purely because we're the senior side in the town. If Tigers were to find themselves in a position where ENL was our only option, would it be in Titans' interests to run against us in the same league? Or would it be better for them to drop to ENL2 and continue nurturing the talent that the junior club produces like Luke Brittle, James Warman, Dan Harrison, etc? That's why I think it could work if it needed to. You are correct in saying we need stronger links with the Titans, whichever leagues us and them are in. You only have to look at the coveyer belt of talent that's come out of Sheffield to see what joined-up thinking between clubs at all levels can do. |
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Post by tom on Feb 26, 2011 3:19:40 GMT
An aside from this ... I wonder if all the teams in our league had our budget.... how do you think the league positions would stand? ? ? Food for thought .... I think so ..... ENL .. I dont think so .... But they don't all have the same budget and there'll never be a situation where everyone in a league does operate on the same budget in any sport, so why is that relevant? I'd also hope that as chairman you wouldn't opt to keep the club in the EPL even if it wasn't financially viable as your ENL comment seems to suggest? If others are to make "austerity drives" (to quote the media) and link expenditure more closely to income then that's a great thing for the sport, and I hope you're correct in saying that other clubs are looking at this. |
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Post by brav607 on Feb 26, 2011 11:59:49 GMT
The question of teams having the same budget is merely a food for thought comment and I was interested in seeing what peoples thoughts were.
Is the ENL suggestion along the lines of assumption that the Tigers would have the same squad as this year (more or less). Do you think that the talented Brits on the squad would play ENL or disappear to other EPL teams ? The whole point of being EPL was to create an outlet in Telford for up coming talent from the Titans. We are seeing this coming to fruition now, much to the understandable annoyance of the Titans owners as the forward development depletes their squad. If the main team is ENL then any local talent will simply go elsewhere in order to better themselves. Development is the whole point of this.
As for being chairman .. I would not be in a position to make a decision about which league to play in ..that would be a democratically taken decision made by the trust members.
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deall
Junior Member
Posts: 97
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Post by deall on Feb 26, 2011 14:36:50 GMT
It may be worth talking to the Coventry Blaze for some sort of funding. Seeing as we have a number of 2-way players with them, if the Tigers were to be mothballed for another season, Coventry would lose that service. And it's not as if they haven't got the money, considering they took over the Hull Stingrays last summer.
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Post by tallpaul on Feb 26, 2011 15:26:01 GMT
A slightly different take on the EPL vs ENL thing.
When the players take to this ice this evening I will have the privilege of being able to see one of the best British players of all time - Tony Hand (sorry Alan, not you!) and one of the most exciting young British player currently playing in any league - Scott McKenzie (sorry Alan, still not you), plus a number of junior GB internationals and, in Kristofferson and Huppe, a couple of top class imports.
How cool is that!!
(And this post isn't meant to be disrespectful to the players I haven't mentioned)
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Post by rinkrat on Feb 26, 2011 16:22:13 GMT
On THF there is a rumour that all the leagues could have a shake up ending up with three leagues with promotion & relegation. If that is the case based on the rumour we would end up in the third which would basically be the bottom half of the EPL with a few of the top ENL teams. Surely this would result in more even games and the promotion & relegation would sort out the leagues in due course on merit!
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